Interesting points, a few thoughts in return.

Jun 30, 2015,07:23 AM
 

It couuld be argued that ALL commercially available luxury goods are "overpriced" - how else would the owners afford their new cars, castles, or even new factories?


But of course I don't think any of us would begrudge them their "rewards" of hard work and genius; I think consumers (at least the reasonable ones, anyway) only have a problem when it is to excess.

Of course, excess is hard to define, universally (kinda like defining porn) and highly contextual to each individual. What is "excessive" to you may not be "excessive" to me...

Most of us here on PuristSPro probably would rather brands with celebrity endorsements save that money and pass it back to us their customers by lower prices or higher intrinsic value, but most of us (reasonably) accept that that is the brand owner's decision and we can decide if the "surcharge" is something we can stomach or not.

Of course there are some of us that love to go on crusades...

smile

To term RM "mainly a casemaker" is perhaps a little harsh, but RM is indeed a very interesting case study.

So too MB and F - I remember Max telling me he wanted to avoid POS (points of sale, ie, doors ie dealers) even though he started with some important doors like Westtime and Hourglass and other key accounts he cultivated from his Harry Winston days...  Look at how many POS he has today; things evolve, things change...that's just life.

Peter Speake-Marin was even more specific about wanting to avoid retailers...

But I'm getting off your main post points.

Chinese buyers globally (to address Marcus Hanke's point) do account for a large proportion of luxury buying today, maybe even a majority, but the days of easy money selling crap or quickly sinocized market specific models like throwing a dragon or phoenix on the dial are numbered.

The Chinese are nothing if not quick learners, and the Chinese market is evolving faster than most people realize from country bumpkin stupid nouveau rich chasing only prestige and bragging rights to sophisticated well educated consumers of quality and culture; this development, like their economy overall, is and will develop far faster than so called "developed" markets in their equivalent developmental stages.

This is not a prediction; this is a fact.

Which is not to say there aren't many many many "I don't care about quality, I just want the most expensive" Chinese buyers still, just as there are American, Isreali, German,  Russian, et al such buyers.

You mentioned a Chinese saying, here is another I have heard in the past - "Anyone with money can collect jewels and gold; it takes culture and taste to appreciate timepieces."

Cheers, and thanks for sharing your thoughts.

TM


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Things that make you go hmmm...Seven Friday and MBandF - Why is it that...

 
 By: ThomasM : June 29th, 2015-10:27
Seven Friday, with its "lowly" Miyota (Citizen) mechanical movement is generally dismissed by "serious watch enthusiasts" while "cult" watches like MBandF's "flights of fantasy" are so coveted, even revered? Photo by Foversta To what extent does price - t...  

I DO think high prices intrigue us.

 
 By: TheMadDruid : June 29th, 2015-16:05
Conversely, inexpensive watches might not grab our immediate attention. But sites like this and Hodinkee et al. can educate about the virtues of the less expensive. As for Richard Mille: I don't get it and I've never gotten it. If, in fact, that company e... 

Thanks for your thoughts. There is no question price, besides its quantitative value, has powerful qualitative connotations, both explicit and implicit.

 
 By: ThomasM : June 30th, 2015-06:58
How often do we hear the old adage, 'you get what you pay for" (not always) How often do we hear the sincere but naive question, "How much is that" before the questioner even begins to fathom the other aspects of what makes tthis field so interesting to l... 

Very good question

 
 By: docsnov : June 29th, 2015-21:15
I think MB&F are given praise by serious watch enthusiasts because the watches have movements designed by the best of the best watchmakers in the world and they use the best materials and finish their watches on the level of the highest end brands. As to ... 

RM

 
 By: tom2517 : June 29th, 2015-22:21
is a master of marketing. They don't make their own movements, frankly you can basically say they are just a watch case maker. RM makes around 4000 watches a year and yet they have over 20 boutiques world wide, not to mention all that marketing efforts. S... 

RM

 
 By: chu.loh : June 29th, 2015-23:50
RM is for the minority who drives Lambo to show off another expensive thing they can afford in life

LOL I understand the stereotype and it is a real one. But of course I hope you were mostly joking and realize not all RM owners fall into that stereotype.

 
 By: ThomasM : June 30th, 2015-07:29
I know lots of Lambo drivers who wear MBandF... :-) But seriously, yes, there are lots of "show offs" who own Lambos and RM ("The Billionaires Bracelet") but that doesn't, shouldn't take away from the legitimacy of RM as a cool cutting edge horological wo... 

China is not Switzerland's biggest customer ...

 
 By: Marcus Hanke : June 30th, 2015-05:38
Sorry to correct you, but your statement is wrong. According to the official Swiss statistics, only Asia as a whole, including the strong Middle East, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, etc.) accounts for 52% of the export value. (Jan.-May 2015) C... 

For the most part I agree, but be careful before accepting the "obvious" conclusions from the "facts"

 
 By: ThomasM : June 30th, 2015-06:32
Dear Marcus, The DOMESTIC Chinese market is a highly complex one - not the endless land of milk and honey panacea so many thought over the past 10 years, but also not the moribund one that now is so (wrongly) seen by the lemmings, either. But too often th... 

data doesnt capture visiting Chinese tourists who visit ther Wempes of Europe....

 
 By: Hororgasm : July 1st, 2015-03:38
....and buy by the dozens. domestic sales in China attract huge punitive luxury trade, so there is a thriving grey market from Berkins to RMs. other markets like Australia, from anecdotal evidence from Richemont and Singapore ADs with Aussie presence, the... 

Interesting points, a few thoughts in return.

 
 By: ThomasM : June 30th, 2015-07:23
It couuld be argued that ALL commercially available luxury goods are "overpriced" - how else would the owners afford their new cars, castles, or even new factories? But of course I don't think any of us would begrudge them their "rewards" of hard work and... 

part of coveting psychology

 
 By: Arie - Mr Orange : June 30th, 2015-02:48
Price is absolutely part of the 'coveting psychology' when it comes to watches. At least I think the (sub-conscience) thought is: Higher price, higher exclusivity. Of course if you get more into watches and understand more about the quality of finishing a... 

I happened to see a higher list price watch today

 
 By: cazalea : June 30th, 2015-16:20
I can't fathom it, but here it is -- perhaps the dealer is trying to get a "highest price" ranking or something? Both watchmaker and dealer are fiends (oops) I mean friends of the PuristS Cazalea ...